Roland bring the D70 to their cloud service

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Roland bring the D70 to their cloud service

Unread post by Saul » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:45 am

I must have been living under a rock over the last few months because I must admit to never having heard of the Roland Cloud service until now.

I received a mailshot today telling me about how the Roland D70 has been added to the Roland Cloud 8O

Roland Cloud is a virtual instrument resource that provides tools, musical instruments and soon, a community for creators. We are remaking decades worth of Roland synthesizers and providing new instruments as well that run in popular Digital Audio Workstations (DAW) such as Pro Tools, Logic or Ableton Live. It's an entire professional studio worth of capabilities for a low monthly subscription.

Thing is this is a subscription based service and at it's normal price of nearly $30 per month is it worth the cost? Also In order to "Plug out" the LEGENDARY or AIRA series of software synthesizers to your hardware, you will need a Roland SYSTEM-1, SYSTEM-1m or SYSTEM-8 so really there is no added value there.

You will need to be online whenever the instruments are loaded within the DAW. Once the instruments have loaded and authenticated there is no need to stay online. So that means you MUST have an internet connection before you can use any of the instruments your paying for. Not a an ideal system in my book. What if your connection is down or your in a place that has no internet?

If you cancel your subscription everything stops working from the time your sub ends. So in reality your "renting" all these instruments. Again not ideal. Perhaps a better model would be to offer people a one of price on cancellation should they wish to continue using the instruments but without updates?

Anyway, check it out here and let me know what you think :)

https://www.rolandcloud.com/
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Re: Roland bring the D70 to their cloud service

Unread post by Derek » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:47 pm

This was discussed on Korg Forums a few weeks back. It has zero interest for me, specifically the fact that you need to be connected to the internet (so how would you use them live) and once you stop subscribing, that's it.
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Re: Roland bring the D70 to their cloud service

Unread post by Saul » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:04 pm

Yeah I was initially very interested until I found out it would not work without an internet connection. Of course once connected and authorised it will continue to work until you close your DAW but that's not really the point. Suppose your off out into the countryside for a few days of inspiration and music making...no connection means you cannot use all these Roland instruments. Does that make any sense to anyone?

Also I am not sure about that price. Seems rather expensive to me.
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Re: Roland bring the D70 to their cloud service

Unread post by Saul » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:09 pm

Just been testing the D70 through the Roland Cloud 30 day trial. Have to say it sounds fantastic. It did take a while for Cubase Ai9 to find it though...shame there is no stand-alone version, everything needs to be run through a DAW.

The download itself is around 2Gb but I think it takes up around 5Gb once installed. So if you were to download all of the synths from the Roland Cloud your going to need quite a bit of spare storage, although of course that is quite cheap these days so probably not an issue.

Once Cubase found the VST which by the way is named 'Concerto' for some bizarre reason, all I had to do was put in my email address and password..created on signing up to the cloud service and that was it.

The interface is very smooth and user friendly. I can see Roland put a lot of thought into this plug-in. The sounds are generally superb. I did own a D-50 at one point and as a comparison I think they got the D-70 pretty much spot on, plus of course you have the advantages of modern tech to boost the basic D-70 into something really special. Many of the sounds would not be out of place in music today and certainly with a little tweaking they become very much of the moment.

Were the pricing structure better and there was no need for an internet connection every time you wanted to fire up any of the Roland Cloud synths then I think it would be a very good idea. As it stands it sounds great but needs more thought to pricing and offline functionality.

At least Roland and Korg ARE making their classic synths available to us all in the form of software. Where is Yamaha in this party? Seems they are absent yet again and it's getting bloody annoying! I simply cannot believe Yamaha do not have the capability to make a software version of the SY77/99/85 or the EX5 to name but a few. The CP80 is already out there...left to a third party of course. When are Yamaha going to realize that the real money is in software not hardware?

I read a quote the other day which I think Yamaha should adopt as their ethos going forward. "When there is a gold rush don't dig for gold, sell shovels instead"

Korg get it, Roland get it, why don't Yamaha?
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Re: Roland bring the D70 to their cloud service

Unread post by Derek » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:18 pm

I fail to understand Yamaha's lack of activity in this area, especially as they have demonstrated that they can take the FS1r code base, hacksaw it in half and drop half of it in a Montage (and rename it FM-X).

I think Roland are playing catchup with Korg, who have synths all the way from the Kronos down to Gadget at all price points in hardware and software, i.e. in the synth market Korg have something for everybody. Not everybody will buy (or can afford) a Kronos, the ones who can may have no interest in Gadget, but Korg are covering all bases. But at least Roland are on the journey, even though I would never consider their current "rent it" pricing structure and limistations. Yamaha have not even found the starting block yet.

To show how you can take your classic intellectual property and resell it (Korg are getting no money for second hand synths changing hands!), consider the iconic Wavestation:
  • It has been in the Korg Legacy Collection since at least 2006 (when I purchased it)
  • It is in the OASYS/Kronos HD-1 engine which support wave sequencing
  • It is now in iWavestation
The latter one is really cool as the GUI makes Wavesequencing a lot more intuitive. That's the way to do it!

BTW, a "rent it" option itself for software is not fundamentally wrong. I rented some audio processing software a few months back for a specific one off job pulling some voices out of a mix, and the price for a few months rental for a one shot job that I only needed the software for, was far cheaper than outright purchase for something that I probably would not use again. The company was probably savvy and realised that as well as high end pros who would need the software all the time, there was another market for people like me, and it was cheap enough to be attractive.

The issue I have with this Roland option is that it is the only choice for the soft synths, and the price is actually quite pricey over time. E.g, my major Kronos purchase was indeed quite expensive, but $30 a month over 5 years is $1800 or a good chunk of a hardware synth which I can keep using for a long as it works, does not need an internet connection when I gig, etc. etc.
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Re: Roland bring the D70 to their cloud service

Unread post by parametric » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:05 pm

Derek wrote:I fail to understand Yamaha's lack of activity in this area, especially as they have demonstrated that they can take the FS1r code base, hacksaw it in half and drop half of it in a Montage (and rename it FM-X).

I think Roland are playing catchup with Korg, who have synths all the way from the Kronos down to Gadget at all price points in hardware and software, i.e. in the synth market Korg have something for everybody. Not everybody will buy (or can afford) a Kronos, the ones who can may have no interest in Gadget, but Korg are covering all bases. But at least Roland are on the journey, even though I would never consider their current "rent it" pricing structure and limistations. Yamaha have not even found the starting block yet.
Yes, I find it extraordinary that a Company with the MIGHT of Yamaha cannot see the possibilities of releasing their acknowledged "Golden Era" Synths as VSTis - and Saul has confirmed that they have "No plans to do so" 8O
I take the KVR Newsletter - which arrives weekly . . . the news on software products is almost exclusively about VSTis these days . . . .
Derek wrote:To show how you can take your classic intellectual property and resell it (Korg are getting no money for second hand synths changing hands!), consider the iconic Wavestation:
  • It has been in the Korg Legacy Collection since at least 2006 (when I purchased it)
  • It is in the OASYS/Kronos HD-1 engine which support wave sequencing
  • It is now in iWavestation
The latter one is really cool as the GUI makes Wavesequencing a lot more intuitive. That's the way to do it!
Agreed. C'mon Yamaha :!: Or do they think that sudden availability of late/great VSTis will impact sales of the Montage? - Surely not?
Derek wrote:BTW, a "rent it" option itself for software is not fundamentally wrong. I rented some audio processing software a few months back for a specific one off job pulling some voices out of a mix, and the price for a few months rental for a one shot job that I only needed the software for, was far cheaper than outright purchase for something that I probably would not use again. The company was probably savvy and realised that as well as high end pros who would need the software all the time, there was another market for people like me, and it was cheap enough to be attractive.
That seems to be a nice solution in your case, Derek, so I can't fault that. Though generally I'm not likeing the concept of "Cloud" - and it seems to be spreading like a virus.

I believe that AutoCad is "sold" this way these days (or rather "rented"). Well it was around 2000 Quid to buy last time I looked. Seems you can't BUY it anymore.

The concept of buying stuff that is never really yours in a real sense, is monstrous. The idea of using such a product as you do, Derek - LIVE - and having to jump through all sorts of hoops to be ALLOWED to use it is clearly nonsense.

I've no problem with protection of intellectual property etc, but when it interferes with its proper use - I DO.

The system that NI use does NOT impinge at all. I have my single copy of Komplete10 installed on my desktop and my laptop - no problem.

I do NOT like dongles. Apart from the fact that the only recourse you have with them is in the event of failure of the dongle - they are too easy to loose or have stolen - both of which eventualities mean you LOSE EVERYTHING. (At least, this is the situation with the "iLok" Brand)
At the Uni - we used to feed a short M-F usb lead INSIDE the system Case - so the iLok could be padlocked INSIDE the case to prevent theft.
(Bearing in mind that several thousands of pounds of SW was authorised by these things)
Derek wrote:The issue I have with this Roland option is that it is the only choice for the soft synths, and the price is actually quite pricey over time. E.g, my major Kronos purchase was indeed quite expensive, but $30 a month over 5 years is $1800 or a good chunk of a hardware synth which I can keep using for a long as it works, does not need an internet connection when I gig, etc. etc.
The price of a vsti need to be attractive - THEN it will sell . . . . . So, ease OFF the Greed throttle . . . . eh?

parametric
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Re: Roland bring the D70 to their cloud service

Unread post by Saul » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:14 pm

I don't understand why Roland have gone down the Cloud route for activation. There is plenty of software out there that works fine without the need to be online before you can use it. My Korg Legacy Digital collection doesn't need to be online. Pianoteq doesn't need an internet connection. Native instruments FM8 is working fine with no connection. The only thing this Cloud based service does is piss people of. The instruments sound great and you do have to download them in their entirety so the 'Cloud' thing just gets in the way and makes what would otherwise be a fantastic product a complete non event!
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Re: Roland bring the D70 to their cloud service

Unread post by parametric » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:31 pm

Me neither Saul . .

I don't know in detail how the NI system works. I'm thinking that when you activate it via the Service Center, it writes a file which confirms the fact that you have a license - and that's it.

I guess it looks for that file when you run it and if its there - It runs . . .

I've NOT tried the Laptop installation with the WiFi turned off (never thought to), but I suppose that would prove it, one way or the other?

. . .and correct. Cloud services DO piss people off :lol: I find they tend to IME . . .

Some time ago I did some beta-testing for a famous HD manufacturer. I had two 2TB NAS Storage units to test. Part of the test was to set up accounts for users to try . . .

ALL those I asked NEVER REGISTERED. - NOT WISHING to register with the aforementioned company in order to use the service.

QED.

I later ripped out the two HDD and installed them in a Synology LinkStation which DOESN'T require ANY third-party involvement to work . . . .

I.E. MY "Cloud" sits on MY Shelf, above MY desk . . . 8)

parametric
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